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Video Capture Devices for WYSIWYG

Discussion in 'Technical Support' started by Dany, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. Oleg

    Oleg New Member

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    Hi all!
    I have Blackmagic Mini Recorder on PCI, and it does not works too. Some people wrote, that the problem can solved by changig parameter of NTSCIRE, but there is no such parameter in BM Desktop Video for decklink mini recorder.
    Does the solving of the problem exist?
    Also I used BM Intensity Pro Thunderbolt on my Macbook Pro with Windows 7, and all works good.
     
  2. boris

    boris New Member

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    Dany,

    Since Intensity Shuttle USB 3 is supported by Cast, can you post some recommended procedures about how to make it work with Wyg?
    I have spent two days trying, without success, like many people on this forum. I can see the picture in Blackmagic Express, I can see the card in Video Manager, I can make Video0 from it, I can attach it to the screen, but I can not see the picture.
    Please, give some support for officially supported device.

    Best regards,
    Boris
     
  3. Jason Gardash

    Jason Gardash Member

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    Hi Boris,

    I believe in either R39 or R40 coming at some point this year there should be a fix for the Blackmagic cards and I believe but not 100% sure that the Intensity 4K cards will be covered as well. This will solve a broken link in the driver-sets that occurred after 10.2 series of drivers.

    Having said that. With the Shuttle. make sure you have the right USB 3.0 chip-set in your system. most newer computers seem to be ok; but if you go back even a year or two or more you may have issues. I have my shuttle card here and I use it, But it works on one system fine and another it wont read at all. I also find USB3 capture devices use a lot more resources so I keep it more for a third or fourth source feed at lower resolutions.

    Play around with different ports as well. I found I had better connection with the back ports than the front ports of my system.

    Next. use driver set 10.2.2 or 10.2.1 Blackmagic may have newer drivers but this seems to be the driver set that works with both the shuttle card and Wysiwyg.
    Here is the link for it.
    https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/download/34d3ac63eb7d45d9be4f52e4dee4dec6/Windows

    Use the Blackmagic WDM capture as your source. then match you settings of your source (video server) using the Blackmagic control driver.
    my setup is usually 1040p or 720p setup.

    But as to looking for direct support from the guys at Wysiwyg. The fastest and best way is to email techsupport@castgroupinc.com

    Include your dongle code and user name attached with the dongle. also give them a breakdown of your computer system, USB3 chip-set may help as well if you can find it. and any other relevant info. like if you have all the USB3 ports filled with other devices or using a 6' USB3 cable over a 3' shipped cable. also list if your using a Mac or Windows computer. and what software version. I know windows 10 been a nightmare for most Blackmagic cards being the way windows handles resources now. but I can't go any further than that as I am staying clear of Windows 10 due to the so many other issues for live use. (updates , advertising bloatware)

    Today being Sunday I'm sure they will have a response or even a call out to you in a day or two.. they are usually pretty quick at getting back to support questions.

    Hope that helps, I'm usually around if you need a hand.. will need more info though.

    Jason
     
  4. boris

    boris New Member

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    Thank you Jason,

    Next. use driver set 10.2.2 or 10.2.1

    I tried 10.2 and 10.2.2, but for some reason they do not install Video Setup and are therefore useless.

    I know windows 10 been a nightmare for most Blackmagic cards being the way windows handles resources now. but I can't go any further than that as I am staying clear of Windows 10 due to the so many other issues for live use. (updates , advertising bloatware)

    Unfortunately, I have a new Windows 10 computer. But fortunately, I did not by Blackamgic card, I borrowed it. The price of the card is about the same as the price of this little tool: https://k-mt.net/citp-tool/, and I was wondering which of them to buy. CITP tool works on Mac computers, and turns output of Syphon media servers into CITP. Works perfectly with Wyg. Since I am using Mac media server software (Millumin and Resolume Arena), I think I will go for it.

    Boris
     
  5. Jason Gardash

    Jason Gardash Member

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    Hi Boris,

    The drivers may have an issue with windows 10 as they are older by a few years. but as I said before Windows 10 really sucks for working machines
    I did take a look at the citp-tool page and if they have a demo I say give it a try if it seems to work then I say go for it. I'm impressed with what they offer. curious is it allow multi sources. i.e. if you have a 2 feed output from the server if it accept 2 feed to wysiwyg this was why I have 2 intensity pro cards in my main unit.

    I never had much luck with citp in Wyg but I never really tried to make it work really.
    I should one day give running Wysiwyg on a Mac as I do have a Mac or two laying around for other things.

    You did right by borrowing the Shuttle card first. I even lent mine out a few times for people to try first.

    Noticed your from Croatia, Father grew up in Osijek. I only been thru the country twice while on tour. Never got to really see much. one day I hope to.
     
  6. Michael Ang

    Michael Ang Member

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    Hi Boris,

    Apologizes on my last post, I misinterpreted Dany's post. If you're still using the Intensity Shuttle, try using Desktop Video Version 10.1.1, which you download in the link below:
    https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/download/aa59ad1c133b4711a231b519060bc64c/Windows

    Make sure that in the Blackmagic Design Control Panel, the input connection is correct and that the video resolution and hertz settings match those of your output device. Then, in the Video Manager in WYSIWYG, make sure the resolution match as well.
     
  7. Nick

    Nick New Member

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    I tried getting my Blackmagic usb3 shuttle working a few years ago... I'm disappointed to see that years later there is still no change and no real solution for how to make it work with WYG (it works fine on it's own).

    As far as I can tell, Windows 10 doesn't support the Blackmagic 10.1.1 software so thats not a viable option....

    Does anyone have a working & reliable solution for video input on a windows 10 machine into WYG?

    *UPDATE*. Spoke with support and I'm told there MAY be some resolution to these issues in the next 1 or 2 releases (maybe end of this year or next year?). I feel like I had the same response a few years ago as well, so not keeping my fingers crossed.

    I need a visualizer that can represent both the video and lighting aspects.
     
  8. boris

    boris New Member

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    I did not try it yet, but it seems this device should work: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicwebpresenter
    It takes any HDMI or SDI source and makes it look to the computer like simple USB camera. I have tried one cheap USB camera, and it worked fine with Wyg and Win 10, in the same way a laptop camera would. But the device is a bit pricey.
    There is also one software solution, but your video must come from Mac computer: https://k-mt.net/citp-tool/
    This tool takes output from any Syphon enabled media server (Resolume for example) and turns it into CITP stream which can be threaded into Wyg. I have tried it, and it works. Moreover, you can capture any portion of Mac screen and turn it into CITP stream. There is a demo version, you can try.
     
    #28 boris, Jul 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  9. Jason Gardash

    Jason Gardash Member

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    Hey Nick,
    owning 2 Shuttles and 3 Intensity Pros I can relate to your woes.
    I can say first hand that Cast is working on some updates to the video capture working inside Wysiwyg. but it may be a release or two away.

    having said that. with your issues I first say it may be a USB 3.0 port issue which has been the major issue with the USB 3.0 shuttle device and that is not a Cast issue but a Blackmagic issue. But it sounds like you can see image outside of Wysiwyg I'm guessing thru the Blackmagic Media express. Which uses a different set of drivers from the Wysiwyg set.

    my suggestion is make sure inside Wysiwyg that you select the 'Blackmagic WDM Capture' Driver and NOT the Decklink video Capture drivers. both will appear inside the Video selection of wysiwyg. Only the Decklink video capture drivers appear inside the Blackmagic Media Express.

    From there its a bit of playing around.
    the three things you need to focus on and play with are
    1) the settings of the Blackmagic Design Control Panel which is either in the Blackmagic program folder or in your control panel under the start button. For a safe starting point try setting this to a 720p 60hz setting (I attached a image as well)

    BM contol Panel settings.jpg

    2) Inside Wysiwyg make a video image setting for Video capture (BM WDM Capture) and under the selection size it should be a 720x486 image selection. (I added a image for the setting as well)

    Wyg video Manager settings.jpg

    save this. and exit out. Then select a screen and set it up to show the Video image for the video capture. (image attached.)

    Wyg Video Screen Setup.jpg

    3) no knowing what your video source is. but if say a media server such as Arkaos (what I use) or Mbox or Pandora. make sure your image output resolution is set to a 720p (720x486 preferred). (sorry no image as my Arkaos is on a show right now)

    The key to how the drivers interact with Wysiwyg right now is that you need all three to match or the image will not follow thru to Wysiwyg but may on other programs. you can set it all up to a 1080p if you like for me I find 720p is the norm for my setups currently.

    I will say it took some playing around. in the end I ended up selecting an output from the BlackMagic command panel then match it inside Wysiwyg. then I selected different resolutions until the image came thru in Wyg. if nothing worked from your source (arkaos,Mbox,vcr) then change the setting inside the Blackmagic command panel and try again. once you find one that your write the settings down some where for all three programs / panels. makes it easier next time thru. and is a setup that you know works.

    For the Blackmagic Drivers I use 10.0.2 been using it forever. 10.1.1 should work just as well. the newer ones have a link break in the programming so won't work with Wysiwyg. But is being fixed as we type away here.

    I will also state that when installing the software for all three programs make sure you have the install program in Administrator mode and you have your anti-virus turned off (if using one) this will help make sure the drivers have full access to the system files.
    I will also note that I am still on Windows 7 but I have setup quite a few drivers on Windows 10. I you find your having issues try setting the Blackmagic command Panel to Windows 7 mode. that should help but in general the drivers usually install and behave fine in Windows 10. Don't let Windows 10 copy the drivers over from a Windows 7 or 8 upgrade. uninstall the Blackmagic drivers install them.

    if still having issues. last thing I can think of is unplug other USB 3.0 connections and see if that helps. you may have an overlap on the USB ports causing a slowdown or issue. on my USB 3.0 port off the mother board I have the Capture device and my touchscreen drivers connected. if I turn my touchscreen monitor (second one in my system) a bunch of times it will act up with the Shuttle and I need to reboot my system. or I just unplug the touchscreen cable.

    The Shuttle is / was a great unit and one of the First USB 3.0 devices. But it came with issues and unfortunately not all can be fixed via firmware on the unit.

    give that a try.
    If your still having issues drop me a PM and I'm sure
     
  10. Nick

    Nick New Member

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    I was able to get it working... finally... Reverting back to the older drivers (the only one comparable with WYG) doesn't seem to revert the firmware on the device. I had to re-install the firmware on the Black Magic Shuttle as well so that it was compatible with the older drivers. This doesn't seem to happen automatically.

    The mismatch between the firmware on the device and the drivers on the computer were causing the crashes. It would be nice we didn't have to roll back the drivers and firmware to something from many years ago in order to have it be comparable with WYG.

    It would be nice if Cast would pick one solution for video capture and try to support it fully so that there is a clear and documented way for customers to achieve this function.
     
  11. Jason Gardash

    Jason Gardash Member

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    Hey Nick,
    Odd Mine seem to update firmware as soon as I plug USB in or reboot my system. I'll add that to my notes to state make sure firmware is current to driver version.

    I use Intensity Pro cards more than the Shuttle but same drivers. I believe Cast is working on getting newer BM cards to have under support. but I could misinterpreted what I was told.
    However I have been discussing The BM Driver issue with the Cast guys recently. with fingers crossed hope update will be in by R40.

    Side note as I know you have BM drivers but for others not using BM devices. I'm happy to notice that AverMedia updated their drivers and now I can get my C875 working with Wyg now as well. So I can travel with 2 captures to presentations :)

    I have been chatting with Dany about getting a possible tutorial (video if possible) as to setup options and a clearer walk thru of what's what.
    I also been trying to see if some of the internal dialogue can be cleaned up to help with some confusion even I been running into. and I'm in the capture setup menus at least once a week.

    I will say I did have a chat with the Blackmagic guys and they were honest. they were interested in what I had to say about the drivers but their focus is on video media and not so much software. So I tried to point out that video is nothing without light and some fore thought into design. I also reminded them with 4-5 of their capture devices in hand. maybe a look at how we use it is worth it.


    My eyes Video is becoming more and more with design and I think capture will start to show more relevance in next year or two. with newer processing power.
    Cast is listening. just takes time to get things done among the list of all users wishes. but they been asking questions and looking for input. so as I said by R40 I think you and I and rest of Wyg users will start seeing an update to video capture stuff.

    Jason
     
    #31 Jason Gardash, Aug 26, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  12. Dany

    Dany Super Moderator

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    Hello everyone,

    I am happy to announce that the WYSIWYG R39 Update, which was released less than an hour ago and is available for download from our Members Only Area, addresses all the Black Magic driver compatibility issues and delivers support for two additional Black Magic capture cards, the Intensity Pro and the Intensity Pro 4K. As such, for everyone using these capture cards, please download, install and check out this Update. In addition to doing this, please uninstall the old Black Magic driver that you were using and download and install the current driver (as of today, September 13, 2017, version 10.9.7) from Black Magic's website.

    (Note: the Update also addresses several other R39 issues, as described in accompanying Release Notes, which I urge you to read.)


    Cheers,

    Dany
     
  13. magonydavid

    magonydavid New Member

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    Hi Dany,

    I purchased a BMD Intensity Shuttle USB 3.0 yesterday. I installed the latest driver which is 10.9.11. My PC is running Windows 10 64bit and I'm using wyg R40.

    Everything seemed to be working yesterday when I installed it. I added the video source in the manager and did everything in order to make it work but today wyg can't detect my intensity shuttle nor the video manager tool which was installed with the drivers. After deleting the source in my wyg file and restarting the computer it was working again.

    Before doing that I checked the device manager from the control panel and I could see the device itself but its name was in grey. I opened the properties and the description said that the driver can't be opened because a previous version is already in the cache. The errors code is 38. I could attach a picture but the language of my Windows is set to hungarian so I think it wouldnt help.

    My question would be that am I going to have to do it every time I turn my computer off?

    UPDATE

    I just tested it. If I close the wyg file where I set up my video source and open it the BMD source wont show up. Wyg cant see it in a new file either. It only detects it after deleting the video source from the file where the intensity shuttle worked and restarting the PC.

    When I can see the device, wysiwyg gives it a number like this (x). Now I'm at (5). Does wyg keep the device in some folder or what causes this problem?
     
    #33 magonydavid, Feb 20, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  14. Dany

    Dany Super Moderator

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    Hi David,

    I do not recall anyone having such issues with BM devices.. in fact, since we launched the R39 Update to fix their compatibility issues, we've only had a small handful of support cases related to them, which turned out to be user errors in the end. In addition, as you can see, no one has posted anything about problems here, since my announcement. (It of course goes without saying that the fixes from the R39 Update also went into R40.)

    A couple of suggestions:

    1. Since we have not yet verified operation with driver version 10.9.11, please try with the version that we did verify, 10.9.7. **

    2. Verify that the device works properly with the software that came with it (i.e. BlackMagic MediaExpress). Remember that you must exit any and all BlackMagic apps before you run WYSIWYG with the intention of connecting to a BlackMagic device.

    3. The fact that the device doesn't show up properly in Device Manager may be a bit of a concern; we had similar problems with an Intensity Pro 4K card last year, and in the end it turned out to be a faulty unit, so we had to have it replaced by BlackMagic. As such, you may wish to contact their tech support department and have them run some diagnostics, to ensure that the device you purchased is functioning properly.

    4. If you read back through this thread, there is at least one mention about USB3 controller chips sometimes not being capable of handling the connection throughput required by the device. I don't recall the details at the moment, but this is another thing to check -- and BlackMagic Design's support department might ask for this information too. (If the controller chip is inappropriate, there won't be anything you can do about it if you are using a laptop, because it is not possible to replace that chip; if you are using a desktop machine, you may be able to add a USB3 expansion card, but not necessarily -- you will have to check with the manufacturer or the motherboard manufacturer.)


    Cheers,

    Dany


    **/P.S. I have asked our QA Department to verify the latest driver, and will report our findings here a little later today or tomorrow.
     
  15. Dany

    Dany Super Moderator

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    Just a quick follow-up here to let everyone know that our QA Department has completed testing the latest driver (version 10.9.11) and it works just as well as the previous driver, so we support it officially and endorse its use.

    Thanks,

    Dany
     
  16. magonydavid

    magonydavid New Member

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    Hi,

    I gave myself a day to test everything and now I can rule out a couple of things.

    1. Since your department tested the latest driver I skipped looking for another version.

    2. BlackMagic MediaExpress recognizes the device and all the features of the software work.

    3. I have yet to contact BlackMagic about the device but it works with all the other programs so I hope my device isn't a faulty one. I will still contact them to rule out everything.

    4. Every program I tried with the device could easily access it and my problems only appear with wyg when I try to set it up with complex(not the simple 6x4 video projector) LED walls.

    When I'm using a single subsource everything is working, problems appear with multiple subsources. The resolution in wyg matches the drivers settings and also my sources resolution. (1920x1080 @ 60 Hz or 1280x720 @ 60 Hz, these are the only 2 resolutions that I've tried).

    I have set up a wall divided into 4 rows and 12 coloumns and assigned each one to the corresponding subsource. I can see the video, after closing wyg and opening a new file the video manager doesn't show the device. I have to delete the source and unassigned subsources from the manager, restart the computer and after that I can add my video source but only to one file. I can't have multiple files with the same BlackMagic device assigned because after adding it to one file the device only works with that one. Closing can sometimes also "unconnect"(its not really unconnected, I never touched the cables. There's some type of a driver/software problem) it.

    In one of the pictures you can see the device with a number next to its name. It's like the device is stored to some wyg log and maybe that's why its renaming it after deleting and adding the source(of course I'm not sure about that, I just simply cant think of anything else)

    Hope this helps describing my problem a bit more,
    David

    EDIT

    When I get the video working in live mode after a random amount of time (sometimes hours sometimes minutes) the video itself freezes in wyg, fixtures are still working. I can navigate through menus and everything only the video stops(in BM MediaExpress the video is still going just like on the other machine). When this happens I go into the video manager and I can still see the BMD option only the number gets higher from time to time. After selecting the same source only with the higher number and applying the changes resums the video in Live mode.
     

    Attached Files:

    #36 magonydavid, Feb 21, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  17. Dany

    Dany Super Moderator

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    Thanks David. Very, very strange--and, again, completely unheard of. It looks like we will have some testing to do here, to try to reproduce all this. Once we've completed them (hopefully tomorrow) I will let you know what we find.

    In the meantime though, there is no reason why you cannot move forward with working on your .wyg file/show: instead of using the live video stream, simply use a video file instead, so you can create the subsources/splits, preview the content together with the lighting, etc. To that end, it would be best to capture (part of) the stream form the source using MediaExpress (or any other capture software) and save to an .avi or .mpg file (container) so WYSIWYG can play it back.

    Some questions, before I close:

    - Please tell me the manufacturer and model number of the USB3 controller linked to the port to which you are connecting your Intensity Shuttle device.

    - Please send me the full hardware spec for your computer.

    - Have you, by chance, tested all this on another computer? If not, would it be possible for you to do this?

    - Can you check if you experience the same issues with R39?


    Thanks and sorry for this trouble, David. I'm sure that one way or another we will get to the bottom of it.

    Dany
     
  18. Dany

    Dany Super Moderator

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    Hi again David,

    A couple of things I neglected to mention/ask yesterday:

    (1) Our test of the latest BMD driver (10.9.11) was only a basic one, to determine if it continues to work. We did not test a scenario such as yours -- because we did not know what you were trying to accomplish (you only explained what you were trying to do after I confirmed that the latest driver works). Therefore, it is entirely possible that the problems you re experiencing are due to this driver.

    (2) What are you using as your video output source?


    I look forward to your reply -- to my previous questions as well,

    Dany
     
  19. magonydavid

    magonydavid New Member

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    1. I'm using the USB 3.0 port on my motherboard. My motherboard is a Gigabyte H170M -D3H-CF.

    2. CPU: Intel Core i7 6700
    GPU: 2x ASUS GTX 1080
    RAM: 16GB DDR4 Kingsotn FuryX

    3. For now I can't test it on an other computer. Next week I'M going to try but my other PC might not be powerful enough for wxg.

    4. I deleted the previous version but I'm going to try it out with R39 too.
     
  20. magonydavid

    magonydavid New Member

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    1. Should I use an older driver version, if yes which version would you recommend?

    2. I'm using 2 regular 24' DELL monitors powered by my GTX 1080.

    Sorry for the delay but I'm at a gig right now...
     

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