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WYSIWYG hardly ever responding

Discussion in 'Technical Support' started by sanderloonen, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. sanderloonen

    sanderloonen Member

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    Hi All,

    I hope that someone can help me once and for all, because I am getting really fed up with WYG.

    Let me explain my set up, I have a
    MSI GS65 with a I7 CPU 16GB of RAM and a RTX2070 with a SSD drive

    why o why do I need to wait for the program to proces every change of layout tab.
    why when I run this on a external display and I want to add a Barndoor to a PC the whole of WYG becomes unresponsive and I need to restart WYG.

    yes I have the latest WIN10 Version, R44 with the latest update done and the latests available driver from Nvidea (through the experience app, not anywhere else)

    I am 12 days from licence renewal and am really wondering if it is worth it.
    specially because I have 2 of these setups and it is a LOT of money to pay for 2 designers in a small company...

    please someone tell me what I am doing wrong, or am I expecting to much?

    Sander
     
  2. Floriaan

    Floriaan Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sander, I think the guys at Cast should contact you directly. Here’s a few things out of my own experience.
    Reducing the resolution of your monitor(s) to a maximum of 1920 pixels wide helps a lot. Also the stability of the system is very much related to the hardware it is running on. Especially since R43 the overall stability greatly improved.
    Nevertheless there is a few things that are not smooth at all. The frames of the window stutter and jump when you change views the first time in a document. Also the combination of a pop-up design view plus changing things in Cad can feel very jerky. Much better to use the shaded view in cad, but then you can only see selected beams, while you want to see your changes in the context of a look.
    Much to improve, but also a lot has improved the last year.
    Augment3d and Capture are definitely peeking around the corner.
     
  3. Dany

    Dany Administrator
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    Hello Sander,

    My apologies for the trouble you are experiencing. We are aware of the issues with Mode and Layout Tab switching and are currently working to fix them. We are targeting these fixes for R45 (coming this summer) but if anything can be done before that, in an Update, we will of course release them earlier. (Nothing else makes sense.)


    The second issue you are experiencing is a strange one, so let me make sure I understand: you are saying that adding a barndoor to a fixture is is typically fine ("just another operation in WYSIWYG") while you are working on your laptop without it being connected to a monitor, but if you perform the exact same operation, in the exact same sequence of steps while the laptop is connected to a monitor, WYSIWYG slows down to the point where you cannot use it, so you have to exit (or maybe force-exit via the Windows Task Manager). Is that correct? If so, I will need some more information in order to diagnose this issue, so here are some questions, the answers to which will help me do so:

    1. When you have the monitor connected, are you also using the laptop's panel? If so, is the monitor set to be the secondary display, or the primary?
    2. What resolution is your laptop's panel set to?
    3. What resolution is your monitor set to?
    4. Does lowering the resolution on either help at all? (@Floriaan, thank you for jumping in with that suggestion, as well as for the nice words about WYSIWYG's stability!)
    5. Does this happen in all your files or just one (or maybe a handful)?
    6. Does this happen with a new file, into which you simply insert a simple Black Box Venue, a pipe, and the required fixture?
    7. You specifically mention that this happens with PC fixtures. Is it with all PC fixtures, or a particular one (or few)? (If just a handful, please let me know which.) Does the same happen with Fresnels?
    8. "How" does the issue occur? (a) The moment you add the barndoor? (b) When you go to adjust the barndoor's leaves using the Cuts and Adjustments Tool? (c) When you go to adjust the leaves via the fixture's Properties?
    9. How many Shaded Views are open/visible while you are adding the barndoor and which ones are they? By "which", I mean: (a) one pane in a multi-pane Tab, (b) more than one such pane, (c) the Shaded View tab, a Shaded popup? (Note that the fixture point-of-view "previews" in the Cuts and Adjustments Tool and in Properties are also Shaded Views.
    10. Does the issue occur if you add the barndoor while no Shaded Views are open?
    11. Assuming that the issue occurs only when you go to adjust the barndoor, does it occur if no Shaded Views are visible, aside, of course, from the one in the Cuts and Adjustments Tool or the one in Properties? If both happen to be open at the same time (i.e. you have the Cuts and Adjustments Tool open but still go to the fixture's Properties to adjust the leaves) does closing the Cuts and Adjustments Tool before accessing Properties help at all? What about if you simply used the Cuts and Adjustments Tool (which is the suggested way to do this)?
    12. Assuming you are connected to the monitor and both the laptop's panel and the monitor are enabled (as per question 1) and assuming that the issue occurs only when you go to adjust the barndoor, on which display is the Cuts and Adjustments Tool and/or the Properties window located?


    I look forward to your replies,

    Dany
     
  4. Dany

    Dany Administrator
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    Sorry, @sanderloonen, I forgot to ask if it would be possible for you to send me some of the files with which you are experiencing the issues above. I will PM you an upload link in a minute; if you can do this, please reply to let me know when they are there.


    Thanks,

    Dany
     
  5. sanderloonen

    sanderloonen Member

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    Hi Danny,
    thanks for the very detailed reply,
    here are the answers
    1. When you have the monitor connected, are you also using the laptop's panel? If so, is the monitor set to be the secondary display, or the primary?

    I am using the laptop display as well, the monitor is the 2nd display

    2. What resolution is your laptop's panel set to?

    1920x1080

    3. What resolution is your monitor set to?

    1920x1200

    4. Does lowering the resolution on either help at all? (@Floriaan, thank you for jumping in with that suggestion, as well as for the nice words about WYSIWYG's stability!)

    i have now put it on 1920x1080 the same as the laptop screen. so far there is not a noticeable difference in performance.

    5. Does this happen in all your files or just one (or maybe a handful)?

    it depends on the amount of scenery. I diligently consolidate every object I import, but I do need some set.


    6. Does this happen with a new file, into which you simply insert a simple Black Box Venue, a pipe, and the required fixture?

    no, then it is all fine.

    7. You specifically mention that this happens with PC fixtures. Is it with all PC fixtures, or a particular one (or few)? (If just a handful, please let me know which.) Does the same happen with Fresnels?

    it also happens if I select a profile, or any other fixture and open the cuts and adjustment.

    8. "How" does the issue occur? (a) The moment you add the barndoor? (b) When you go to adjust the barndoor's leaves using the Cuts and Adjustments Tool? (c) When you go to adjust the leaves via the fixture's Properties?

    it was happening the moment I added the barndoor. but I dont remember if I had the cuts and adjustment window open already.
    on other moments it happens when I have a fixture slected and open the cuts and adjustment tool

    9. How many Shaded Views are open/visible while you are adding the barndoor and which ones are they? By "which", I mean: (a) one pane in a multi-pane Tab, (b) more than one such pane, (c) the Shaded View tab, a Shaded popup? (Note that the fixture point-of-view "previews" in the Cuts and Adjustments Tool and in Properties are also Shaded Views.

    I normally like to work in a 3 way view that I made, top/front/right. no shaded.
    this works well, until I open a popup frame with a shaded view on the second monitor.

    10. Does the issue occur if you add the barndoor while no Shaded Views are open?

    it doesnt occur until I open the cuts and adjustments

    11. Assuming that the issue occurs only when you go to adjust the barndoor, does it occur if no Shaded Views are visible, aside, of course, from the one in the Cuts and
    Adjustments Tool or the one in Properties? If both happen to be open at the same time (i.e. you have the Cuts and Adjustments Tool open but still go to the fixture's
    Properties to adjust the leaves) does closing the Cuts and Adjustments Tool before accessing Properties help at all? What about if you simply used the Cuts and Adjustments Tool (which is the suggested way to do this)?

    I never use the properties to do this. not since the cuts and adjustment tool became available eons ago.

    12. Assuming you are connected to the monitor and both the laptop's panel and the monitor are enabled (as per question 1) and assuming that the issue occurs only when you go to adjust the barndoor, on which display is the Cuts and Adjustments Tool and/or the Properties window located?

    this would be on the laptop.
     
  6. Floriaan

    Floriaan Well-Known Member

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    I have a similar issue. If I manipulate a shutter (even if it is from a fixture that is not on in the shaded design view) the image starts to stutter and flicker.
     
  7. Dany

    Dany Administrator
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    Hi Sander,

    My pleasure. Thank you again for sending me your file. I looked at it, but could not reproduce the issue on my system here (which has an old i7 4790K processor, 16GB RAM and a GTX 1070 video card). That doesn't necessarily mean anything though, because this is a desktop. I will do some more testing a little later, using a laptop with a similar spec to yours -- but made by Alienware, not MSI. (We've never tested/used any MSI laptops.)

    One thing that confused a little me was that in the file you had none of the fixture types that you mentioned in your original message.. aside from the many automated fixtures, you only had a handful of Source 4 LEDs in there, and some ACLs, neither of which are typically fitted with barndoors. However, I understand that what you are experiencing happens with virtually any fixture once you have the Cuts & Adjustments tool open.

    A couple of notes and further questions (sorry!) in response to your answers...

    The resolutions you are using are never an issue. I thought that maybe your monitor or laptop panel were QHD or UHD, as wysiwyg sometimes has trouble on these -- but that's usually when using a Shaded View at such resolutions and it's stretched across a large part of the screen (or across the entire screen in Fullscreen mode). The little preview in Cuts & Adjustments should not cause problems though, even at high resolutions. All in all, I do not believe that the resolution you are using is the issue, so there is no reason for you to run your monitor at less than its native 1920x1200.

    In your reply to question 9, you say that you typically work in a Custom ("3-way") Tab without a Shaded View pane, but then you open a Shaded View in a Popup (and presumably move it to the second screen) and that's when the trouble starts. Some questions here:

    a. Is the Cuts & Adjustments Tool open while you are using the Custom Tab -- and if it is, do you experience the problem? (This is where I was going with my previous question 11... trying to find out if the problem occurs only when you are using multiple Shaded Views, or even if you are just using one, i.e. the one in the Cuts & Adjustments too.)

    b. From which Mode and View Layout Tab (CAD > Quad/Shaded/Custom or DESIGN > Quad/Shaded/Custom or LIVE > Quad/Shaded/Custom) do you typically open the Shaded View Popup?

    c. Does it make a difference if you open the Popup from a MODE/Tab other than where you typically open it from?

    d. Does it make a difference if you keep the Popup on your Primary Display?

    e. What if you move both the Cuts & Adjustments Tool and the Popup to the monitor? (Actually, this is related to your answer for my previous question 12.)​

    Also, you mentioned in your first post that you have "2 of these setups"... do you mean that you have two identical laptops and the same issue occurs on both? Or is the other machine different -- and if so, how?

    I am sorry for all these questions, Sander, but since this is not something that anyone else has reported (@Floriaan, the issue you are experiencing seems different than Sander's) I need to be as thorough as possible, so I can have all the information necessary to attempt to reproduce the problem here in the office... because as I am sure you can imagine, if I am unable to reproduce the problem, I cannot get Soft. Dev. to fix it. (That's the same as if your car makes a weird noise, but for whatever reason your mechanic can't hear it. If he can't hear it, he can't know what it is, let alone try to figure out what's making it. I am sure you understand.. ;))


    All that said and asked, it seems clear that SOMETHING is causing the Cuts and Adjustments tool to misbehave -- at least on your system. Once I have your answers to my additional questions, regardless of whether or not I can reproduce the issue, I will have a chat with Soft. Dev. about all this, and go from there. Looking forward to your replies,

    Dany


    P.S. With regards to what you wrote in response to my question 5, about consolidating everything, assuming you are doing this in order to optimize geometry so as to improve performance, I wanted to mention that this is not necessarily the best thing to do, as sometimes Mesh-Consolidating too much can work against you... I explained this in the articles I wrote about Mesh Consolidation, which are linked as "Part 1" and "Part 2" in the Geometry Optimization thread.
     
  8. Dany

    Dany Administrator
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    Hi again Floriaan,

    To me this seems to be an entirely different issue (which I also cannot reproduce here). Does this happen regardless of whether you use one display or two, and regardless of where on these displays the two Shaded Views (i.e. the one in Cuts & Adjustments and the one in the Shaded View) are located?

    Please provide the hardware spec for your machine (CPU, RAM and GPU) including resolutions of both laptop panel and monitor. You aren't, by chance, using a Mac and running Parallels (or some other virtualizer), right? (If you are, there may not be not much I'll be able to do about this issue, since Parallels is not recommended for any Shaded View work, given its atrocious "support" for OpenGL -- or lack thereof.)


    Thanks,

    Dany
     
  9. Dany

    Dany Administrator
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    Hi @sanderloonen. I have not heard back from you anymore -- and I just realized that I never did write back to mention that I was unable to reproduce the problems you experienced with the Alienware laptop I mentioned. Apologies for that.

    If this continues to be an issue for you, please let me know the answer to my previous questions and we will continue the investigation.


    Cheers,

    Dany
     
  10. sanderloonen

    sanderloonen Member

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    Hi Danny,
    I have been a bit busy as this period involves a lot of drawing, and I keep having to re-start Wyg... its slow going...

    the issue appears to be with the shaded view.
    I can open the software and work fine in CAD 2d. but the moment I open a shaded view on an external monitor. the software freezes.
    When I open that same (or a different) 3d view on the main laptop screen and drag it over, everything works fine.
    Until I change the window on the external monitor for a different 3D view. or the cuts and adjustment.(2D works fine)

    this happens over several files and with a NEW empty file as well.

    I am not sure this is the only problem I am having, but this is very repeatable.

    please HELP!

    Sander
     
  11. sanderloonen

    sanderloonen Member

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    Hi,

    this happens on 2 different laptops
    on 2 different external screens.

    laptop 1: lets call it Fabiana
    MSI GS65
    i7-8750H @ 2.2Ghz
    16 Gb RAM
    SSD drive
    RTX 2060

    laptop 2: lets call this one Sander
    MSI GS65
    i7-9750H @ 2.6Ghz
    16 Gb RAM
    SSD drive
    RTX 2070 Max-Q

    hope this helps

    Sander
     
  12. sanderloonen

    sanderloonen Member

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    HI,
    and also the insert new shortcut contains a 3d view.
    so that doesnt work on the external screen
    Sander
     
  13. Dany

    Dany Administrator
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    Thanks Sander. Sorry for the late reply. This issue continues to stump me, I have to admit. (As far as I know, you are, literally, the only wysiwyg user out there who's experiencing this problem.) Another question, which for some reason didn't occur to me to ask earlier: does the problem continue if you swap your Primary and Secondary displays (by right-clicking in empty space on the Desktop and selecting Display from the pop-up menu that appears)?
     
  14. sanderloonen

    sanderloonen Member

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    HI Danny,
    at the moment I am in corona isolation (I live in Italy).
    I cant try out anything for a few weeks as I dont have access to my workspace...

    ciao

    Sander
     
  15. Dany

    Dany Administrator
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    Oh dear. I'm so sorry Sander, I had no idea. OK, get back to me when you can. All the best to you and yours -- and to the entire world, I guess.
     

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